Helen Phillips 鈥�07 M.F.A. and De鈥橲hawn Charles Winslow 鈥�11, 鈥�13 M.A.
Helen Phillips 鈥�07 M.F.A. and De鈥橲hawn Charles Winslow 鈥�11, 鈥�13 M.A. walking across campus
鈥淚 like to read the newspaper reviews, but I really like to read Goodreads reviews, even the ones that aren鈥檛 glowing, to see how people are feeling about things,鈥� says author聽聽鈥�11, 鈥�13 M.A. as he reflects on the success of his first novel. 鈥淚 care about the reader; if I鈥檓 honest, I care about the reader more than the big publications because I feel like those are the people who come back to you. Newspapers may not like your second book. But a person who went into the bookstore and bought it and enjoyed the first one, they are more likely to come back.鈥�
鈥淚鈥檓 not courageous enough to read my Goodreads reviews,鈥� says聽Helen Phillips聽鈥�07 M.F.A., herself a novelist and Winslow鈥檚 one time professor. 鈥淏ut I think that鈥檚 a really cool way to think about it, whether it鈥檚 a good review or a bad, you鈥檙e really connecting with someone, you鈥檙e having some kind of exchange with them.鈥�
鈥淚 don鈥檛 reply to them, though,鈥� adds Winslow.
鈥淣ever reply!鈥� says Phillips, and the two, sitting side by side in the 今日吃瓜 Library鈥檚 Woody Tanger Auditorium, break into laughter. They have met on the occasion of the recent publication of their award-nominated novels to catch up and consider how they got started with their writing careers and what the future holds.
Winslow opens up with a confession. The native North Carolinian, who plays the piano, relocated because he was thinking of a career in music and believed New York City would be the best place to start. He also admits that he wanted more independence from his family. 鈥淭hey weren鈥檛 bothering me,鈥� he says, laughing. 鈥淏ut in the mind of a 23-year-old, if your mother or aunts can show up at your door, they are too close.鈥�
He soon realized that 鈥淚 was not nearly as talented as most other musicians I met, so I abandoned that.鈥� Following a series of jobs in data entry, at coffee shops and a cupcake store, and behind the front desk in gyms, he was spurred to complete his B.F.A. and M.A. after his father died. 鈥淚 was 30, and his passing made me want to write about him,鈥� he says. This decision landed him in Helen Phillips鈥� creative writing class in the spring of 2011.
鈥淭hat was a strong, exciting class,鈥� says Phillips, whose own debut book,聽聽(Leapfrog Press), was about to be published that May. She has since written four more books, including聽聽(Henry Holt and Co., 2015), praised by the renowned science fiction writer Ursula K. Le Guin as 鈥渇unny and sad, scary and beautiful,鈥� and聽聽(Henry Holt and Co., 2016), called by聽The Los Angeles Times聽鈥減art dystopian fantasy, part thriller,鈥� and likened to Margaret Atwood鈥檚聽The Handmaid鈥檚 Tale.
鈥淚 feel like so much of our job as creative writing instructors is to build communities out of our classrooms鈥︹�� 鈥擧elen Phillips
Phillips recognized Winslow鈥檚 talent early on. 鈥淩ecently I pulled up a workshop critique that I had written to De鈥橲hawn, and it really emphasized the dialogue in his piece鈥� Obviously, he鈥檚 come a long way since then, but the dialogue was so good,鈥� she says, turning to Winslow. 鈥淎nd you were using [North Carolina] dialect to some degree then, really getting people鈥檚 voices on the page and getting the cadence of conversation on the page. Even at that time it was just shining and striking. I have read so many thousands of student pieces over the years, but that piece, it just stays with me. It has a tactile quality for me still,鈥� says Phillips.
Winslow credits two of his professors鈥擯hillips and Helen Rubenstein鈥攚ith giving him the entr茅e to writing about subjects that are important to him: black rural life, black community, and the black family. 鈥淏oth professors encouraged me to pursue a career in writing. They nurtured the writer in me right after reading my work for the first time,鈥� he says. 鈥淚 believe it鈥檚 rare to find instructors who so badly want to see their students succeed. Their mentoring at the very early stages is why I pursued an M.F.A.鈥�
Now peers, the novelists talk shop鈥攖eaching lit courses versus teaching creative writing is one topic on Winslow鈥檚 mind. 鈥淚 feel guilty that I enjoy teaching published literature more than I do hot-off-the-press works,鈥� he says. 鈥淚t makes me feel like I鈥檓 such a selfish writer who doesn鈥檛 want to teach other people. This is not my intention.鈥�
鈥淚t鈥檚 a completely different endeavor to select something for your syllabus that you think is the best story ever written and is really fun to talk about with people,鈥� says Phillips. 鈥淚t鈥檚 rare that someone is going to hand in for workshop the best story ever written. I feel like so much of our job as creative writing instructors is to build communities out of our classrooms and figure out ways to make us a further community.鈥�
Phillips has a question for her former student. 鈥淭his has been such a long journey for you De鈥橲hawn, and it鈥檚 gone so phenomenally well. I think that so much of being a writer means you鈥檙e in solitude, you don鈥檛 know how what you鈥檙e doing will land with other people. And arriving at that moment where you actually get to connect your brain to other brains by having them read your book鈥擨 find that to be one of the most terrifying moments of writing, but also one of the most ecstatic. How does it feel to have gone through this whole process?鈥�
鈥淚t鈥檚 rare to find instructors who so badly want to see their students succeed. Mentoring at the very early stages is why I pursued an M.F.A.鈥� 鈥擠e鈥橲hawn Charles Winslow
鈥淚t feels鈥ood,鈥� says Winslow. 鈥淭he question reminds me that it happened. When it鈥檚 just me by myself, I still feel like an M.F.A. student, still climbing for it. There鈥檚 always 鈥榃hat鈥檚 next?鈥� You write the book, good. Now get an agent; OK, good. Now get it sold. Now you hope people will like it. There鈥檚 always something next. So it takes other people reminding me that I did it,鈥� he says. 鈥淚n these moments it鈥檚 鈥榊ES! I did it!鈥� 鈥�
In turn, Winslow has a question for his former professor: When does she have time to write?
鈥淲hen I鈥檓 teaching in the midst of a busy semester I carve out one hour per day and set a timer,鈥� she says. 鈥淚t鈥檚 usually after I get my children to school and before I turn my attention to all of my teaching and other responsibilities. To some degree I feel like, yes, it鈥檚 only five hours a week, but that time does add up. I once read a writer鈥檚 quote in an interview (I think it was with Sarah Manguso, though I haven鈥檛 been able to re-find the quote), that said basically, 鈥業 don鈥檛 want to read books by people who have time to write books.鈥� And that really inspires me and I think it鈥檚 such a good point, about the book you are writing in that stolen hour, and the book you don鈥檛 really have time to write, and the book that you鈥檙e rushing to. I try to comfort myself with that idea. That I don鈥檛 always have time to write books, but I squeeze them into the cracks, and that brings urgency to them.鈥�
